Eyes for Lies Interviews Paul Bishop from Take the Money and Run
Eyes for Lies Interviews Paul Bishop from Take the Money and Run
- What is your favorite part of an interrogation?
I like the mind game of interrogation – really digging into a subjects psyche, finding what makes him/her tick, and then using that knowledge to open them up.
- What is most difficult about doing an interrogation on “Take The Money and Run” versus in real life?
On Take The Money And Run (TTMAR), we don’t have real guilt or long term incarceration to hold over the hiders. In real life, these are our two big hammers when it comes to getting a confession. Without them, we have to really use hard earned deception recognition skills and psychological warfare to break the contestants down.
- What is your favorite trick is to “break” a suspect?
Gentle physical contact. I love being able to judge the moment when a guilty suspect is at his or her most emotionally vulnerable. Assuming I am in my usual interrogation position, sitting very close to the subject with no barrier between us, and I judge the moment perfectly, I can reach out and place a hand on the subject’s shoulder and get almost an electrical shock from the contact that breaks the emotional dam and the confession floods out. I’ve done it again and again and it never ceases to amaze me the power carried in the human touch.
- I see you use psychology in your interrogations. What is the best technique and why?
There are psychological things I do every time, because you are never sure when or which one of the techniques will work. Simple things like sitting next to a subject so as not to give him or her a barrier to hide behind; always maintaining a position of dominance (trapping the subject in a corner, putting them on an uncomfortable, lower, chair), giving or taking away little things (in TTMAR, we often take the contestants’ toothpaste and toothbrush), providing a meal you know the subject won’t eat resulting in their blood sugar dropping. In TTMAR Episode 4, it is one throwaway line, telling one of the contestants that his partner is in a much more comfortable place, that changes the whole game.
You never know which one, if any, of these or many other psychological touches will work.
- After an episode, you mentioned that you get to debrief the contestants. What was the most helpful tip you got from them?
To a person, the contestants told us they hated being interrogated in their cells. Apparently, being taken to the interrogation room was like a field trip, a break in a very stark routine. When we interrogate in the cells, there is no break and we (the interrogators) are displaying our dominance by invading what the contestants think of as their safe space.
- What interested you to get involved in law enforcement?
I was eight years old watching The Man From U.N.C.L.E. and told my parents I was going to be a policeman. It was something I never outgrew. Police work offered such a variety of options, I knew I would never be bored.
- When you’re actively interviewing someone, how much does it interfere with your ability to spot their deception?
A lot. It’s why I’m interrogating a TTMAR contestant by myself, Mary is off screen watching the contestant’s reactions and facial features while taking notes. Obviously, I do the same thing when she is the lone interrogator. When we are done, we compare notes and make sure we haven’t missed anything. Neither of us are ‘naturals,’ but we do a pretty good job due to our experience.
- Do people get nervous around you when they find out you are an interrogator (like they do a natural)? Do you tell people in your private life?
Most of my personal friends know what I do, but they have no conception of what it really means. I don’t hang out with cops away from the station. The other half of my life is spent in the creative field, which is totally different. TTMAR is the first time most of my friends have ever seen me in ‘work mode.’
- Since finding the truth is a matter of asking the right questions, how long did it take to develop the skill needed to ask the right questions in an interview/interrogation?
Years! And even now I sometimes wonder if I’m doing it right. It’s why, when I train interrogators, I don’t want them to be clones of me. I want them to take the techniques and apply them through their own personality.I try to break them of the conceit of, “If I can break the suspect, nobody can break the suspect.” It’s just not true. You have to set your ego aside and let somebody else take a crack because every suspect is different and you don’t know to which interrogatory personality they are going to respond.
It’s why with 35 years experience behind me, I’m still very interested in what Eyes Fro Lies can do. What does she have to teach me that can make me a better interrogator? I’m always open to trying something new, or adjusting a technique to my personality.
- Do you look at how a person presents themselves to get clues about their personality?
Absolutely! How a person stands or sits, what they’re wearing, what condition their shoes are in, what is the expression on their face, how do they talk, what kind of shape are they in, what’s in their wallet (wait, that’s a commercial jingle, isn’t it?), how educated are they? All of these things and many more, including how you feel they react to you emotionally, are incredibly important in an initial reading of a subject. Things can change as you go along, but you have to start somewhere.
- If someone wanted to become an interrogator, what advice would you give them?
Always leave your personal judgment about what somebody may or may not have done outside the interrogation room. The instant a subject gets an emotional flare indicating you’re judging them, you’ve lost them. This is one of the hardest, yet most valuable lessons to learn.
Thanks, Paul!
