Brandon Pettit: Asperger’s Complicates The Truth
This past weekend, 48 Hours detailed the case of Scott and Janet Pettit, who were found shot dead in their home in 2013. Whoever shot them also set fire to the Pettit’s home.
Police became suspicious of the couple’s son, Brandon, who suffers from Asperger Syndrome (more recently name Autism Spectrum Disorder) and after two interviews arrested him for the murders along with his friend. There is no physical evidence that was linked back to Brandon.
If you have followed me over the years, you have heard me talk about this disorder. It is a disorder where people who suffer from it don’t have the normal social filters like you or I do. They can’t read people like the average person can. They don’t understand social cues nor can they read emotions. To the average person, these people are socially awkward and don’t fit in. They don’t often express normal emotions either. They are typically flat emotionally, and that is normal for them.
Hence, people with Asperger don’t realize when they say things how it can be perceived as “off” or “unusual” or even as a “lie” when they are being honest. It is not uncommon for an Asperger person to say things that make them look suspicious when they aren’t.
For example, you might say to an Asperger patient: Have you thought of killing someone? Most people have casually thought about it or said “Oh, I could just kill her (for doing that)!!”, but won’t admit to something like this in an interview because they didn’t do it seriously — it was a quick anger response that was fleeting. But to an Asperger person–the question is black and white. You either did or you didn’t — and they will confess. They don’t grasp the nuances of it.
If you ask an Asperger person if they went out running errands last night and they went to the Target for say a Starbucks, they may say no. And be totally honest in their mind. Target wasn’t for errands. To them getting a coffee wasn’t an errand. It was getting something to eat or drink. To get an accurate answer out of an Asperger patient, you would have to say did you go to Target? Or did you buy a drink last night? You have to be very clear or things will get confusing fast. You can’t jump to the conclusion they are lying like you would with a normal person.
Overall, people with Asperger syndrome are also very honest–honest to a flaw, however it appears that Brandon liked to make up stories and lie. So he is an extra ordinary case that would require intense study to get to the truth.
If you aren’t familiar with the mindset of this disorder, questioning a person with Asperger syndrome to get the truth is very difficult. You can’t apply the same rules as you do for normal people. I’ve assisted in these cases when I could see major misunderstandings.
My work kept an innocent person out of jail and perhaps prison for life. I believe without question this person would have been convicted if it weren’t able to assist in this case. Thankfully the investigators trusted me and dug much deeper into the case and exposed the real killer, who was convicted.
While there are definite red flags in Brandon’s behavior, until I could view the actual interviews, I am unable to tell you what I believe in this case. For me, it could go either way still. But I do not think Asperger patients should NOT be put into interviews without an expert who understands this disorder to bridge the gaps, or we risk serious harm to them, their families and others, if the wrong person is locked away and the real killer is free to roam!
I watched this last night. I don’t have a conclusion, but I’m leaning towards him being involved if not making it happen. I don’t know much about Asperger’s except for the basics covered here, some previous youtube videos of people with it, and even the character in the sitcom I can’t remember the name of who was supposed to have it.
As important as it is to look at this in the context of Asperger’s, I think we should also give it a pass through the lens that he’s either miss-diagnosed or is low on the spectrum. Something is definitely off about him. Could it be psychopathy and/or anti-social disorder? I don’t know. I do think if we saw a full interview that would be helpful.
This is the thing that got me right off the bat about five minutes in and I hadn’t yet read your post, but did catch the word “aspergers” in the text:
The detective says to him:
“You have, more than once, before your parents died, said you wish your parents were dead.”
And he responds: “A lot of people say that about their parents.”
This was a red flag for me! (I’ll get the the Asperger’s in a moment)
I would expect him to say that he didn’t mean it. That he was just angry. That saying something in anger about people that you love, is a far cry from double murder and arson. Or maybe, with Asperger’s, yeah I said, it, but I just said it, I didn’t do it, what’s the problem?
Yes, most people would never admit, unprompted, and volunteer that they wished their parents were dead, especially when it was said in anger with absolutely no intent behind it, but that’s not the situation here. He was asked directly by a detective who tells him there are multiple accounts of him having said it. I think an innocent person being questioned for a murder he/she didn’t do, answers that question honestly, because the alternative is to lie when there’s no reason to lie.
So the thorn that’s bothering me with attributing his response to Asperger’s, understanding that he may not pickup/understand social cues, is that HE DOES.
Social cues are context. He gives a contextual answer. He says that a lot of people say that about their parents, because a lot of people do (hopefully not too many). He is putting his words in a larger (universally understood) context. “A lot of people in the world have said this at one time or another,” he’s essentially saying. His answer, it seems to me, shows that he understands context. And in this case, he seems to be minimizing the fact that he said it, another flag within a flag. Could his answer still be an Asperger type response? Yeah, possibly, but I think it’s more of a stretch, now.
I don’t know. Maybe, after five minutes with this guy, it would be obvious he has severe Asperger’s and it should factor heavily in considering everything he says or does. There isn’t much video of him as the show mostly covers physical evidence, the investigation, and accounts by people.
What do you think? Is there anything I should look at or consider about what flagged me?
Thanks for posting! This was enjoyable.
You make an interesting point that I want to touch upon. Often Asperger people are flagged as psychopaths in interviews because of their little to no emotional display and strange statements. It is precisely his statement about his parents that is UNUSUAL. Ask yourself this: Would a psychopath admit to thinking about killing their parents? Very unlikely. They manipulate, they try to out smart others and be one ahead of you. Here we have no manipulation. We have blunt honesty. That immediately takes it off the radar for me as a red flag, and is consistent with his diagnosis. It’s the exact opposite of a psychopaths response. They would deny it and try to play cool.
You are applying how you and me would think. Asperger syndrome people think differently. Remember they are not typically connected to their emotions. In his mind, he said. It’s fact. Period. Where is there a problem? He doesn’t analyze it–that’s what you would do. Not people with Asperger –generally speaking. Yes, there is a spectrum in the disorder, but it is consistent with predictable behavior knowing the diagnosis. Your second point is correct.
Asperger people are often literal, black and white. He’s heard other friends say it. You can guarantee it. That’s very common in your teenage years. He is repeating what is obvious to him–nothing more.
I think it is a matter of understanding how they think (as a syndrome) and applying that, and it gives you a clear lens that what you spoke about is not a red flag or hot. That’s not to say there isn’t something that is at this point. I just can’t say from what I’ve seen.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Paul!
I wasn’t flagged by that response to the detective myself. People with Asperger’s are pretty literal, and there wasn’t ever a question actually asked there (watch that section again – if you thought there was a question asked, you’ll be surprised that there wasn’t a question asked and not realize that you filled in the question in your own mind automatically, which isn’t something someone with Asperger’s is likely to do) – the detective made that statement and he responded to that statement with his statement. It would be a neurotypical person who would answer an implied question there, but less likely someone with Asperger’s – they wouldn’t necessarily see a question in that statement, they would only see the statement and would then complete/correct that statement based on their understanding of its meaning because it was an incomplete statement that would be misleading if left uncorrected. I do that a lot myself, often to the annoyance of people who spend a lot of time around me.
Another thing you may see with someone with Asperger’s in that situation is that if they know they were innnocent, they wouldn’t feel any need to declare their innocence because they would tend to expect other people would see their innocence as obviously as they see it themselves. This is because people with Asperger’s lack the so-called “theory of mind” where they can readily recognize that other people don’t share their own internal mental world. To an innocent person with Asperger’s, I would expect that they would just assume that their innocence was a foregone conclusion and there wouldn’t be any need to state the obvious, so unless they were prompted to at some point, they might never do so.
In the case where he responded that way, you may be misinterpreting what you saw as an understanding of a social cue, rather than a recognition that a statement as presented would be ambiguous and be likely to lead people to incorrect conclutions if the additional information weren’t presented to counter the ambiguity. I run into this a lot with badly designed tests, where I’ll read a question that no one else has any trouble at all interpreting, but I honestly can’t begin to guess at what they’re trying to ask and have no idea how to answer the question correctly, and often don’t as a result. I’m left go guess an answer on a question no one among my peers would ever struggle with, and even when they explain why they believe that’s the question and answer, I still can’t connect the dots and I still think they’re relying on some unconscious mental shortcut that will lead them to incorrect conclusions if they approach every problem that way.
I see his response there as frustration that they’re saying something that’s such a waste of time and irrelevant, because lots of people do say things like that at some point in their lives, but clearly almost none of them ever actually do it, so it’s a mistake to consider that evidence of anything in the absense of anything else that makes it relevant in that particular case.
I would also like to see more of the interviews with him, because there isn’t enough here to reach a conclusion to me either. It could go either way based on what I saw, however I can’t ignore the fact that a lot of the people who leaned in the direction of his guilt in this episode definitely seemed like they lacked an understanding of how people with Asperger’s function and operate. They don’t work anything like “normal” people, and it’s a mistake to apply the same filters to them. I agree with Eyes that you need people who really understand the condition in order to interpret something like this.
By the way, I think it’s great the way you approached this and your thinking process in how you evaluated what you were seeing. You might be right in this case, or you might be wrong, but I do think you’re on the right track in general, at least. You’re looking, observing, considering, thinking evaluating – these are all the right tools to use. The rest comes with experience, and experience comes from just what you’re doing, so I would say definitely keep doing it.
Thank you, Keith. You make a lot of good points to consider.
I can promise you as a mom with a son with Asperger’s that lying is a HUGE part of it! It isn’t even lying to them… My son would tell people at 14 that he served in the war and was wounded. That is just one examples. People with Asperger’s don’t know how to deal with people and they look to invent ways that they think will make someone like them. My son is no 19 and even after so many years with specialists he tells people wild stories. It takes patience and a TON of understanding! It is sad because he thinks he needs these stories to be able to communicate with people…. and they honestly start to think these things are true. The words of someone with Asperger’s should NEVER been used to convict.
My step-son never lied. He was so brutally honest that it would sometimes hurt people and he didn’t care if it did.
I’m confused … it sounded like you indicated that “My work kept an innocent person out of jail …”. So, I was expecting that somehow Brandon avoided jail … however, I’m only finding reports that he is serving two life terms. Can you clarify when you get a chance.
Also, because I didn’t know this, I wanted to look it up, and was surprised myself, but:
“Extraordinary” means: out of the ordinary – unusual, uncommon, exceptional.
Whereas, “Extra Ordinary” means: very common, usual, fixed, prevailing.
The person I kept out of jail was not involved in this case. It was another murder case I assisted on. Thanks for sharing those definitions! Interesting!
😀
On another note, if you ever get an inkling for writing about the complexities of the Daniel Holtzclaw case or the two psycho detectives who pursued him, I’d love to hear. That case is so fraught, I can’t tell what to think.
Otherwise, keep on keepin on!
This is just not right! I have a son with Asperger’s who would tell girls when he was 14 that he had fought in the military! That is just one of the many stories that in his mind he seemed to believe! It took a lot of work with specialists and patience but he still has issues with lying for no reason. This is part of having Asperger’s! To use only the words of someone with Asperger’s is shameful!!!!! I wish this jury would have had someone in their life with Asperger’s so that they could have have a real understanding!
Hi Renee, thank you for covering this topic. I am a recently diagnosed female with adult autism. While I agree with most of what you say about the condition, eg. we are very honest, literal and need questions to be specific and without nuance – what I don’t agree with are the generalisations around reading emotion. I think there are especially distinct differences in male and female autism, and generalisations like this that are not gender specific only further serve misunderstandings around neurodivergence.
My stepson was diagnosed with Asperger’s when he was about 8 years old. One thing that is so true with these types of individuals is that they are very honest. In my experience my stepson was brutally honest and never lied regardless if it hurt me or anyone else. He didn’t agree with “white lies.” Everything was either black or white and there was no in between but he was also very manipulative and secretive about what he would tell you.